Starting it in business is no easy feat—especially for women, who face a variety of challenges that their male counterparts don’t. Despite this, women founders have made massive strides, and the support of fellow female entrepreneurs is a great way to boost that growth even further.

On this Persevere Podcast, you’ll hear Tammy Lee, the Founder and CEO of Xena Therapies. Xena is a US-based med-tech company that manufactures two brands of wearable, cool therapy products: Opal and Onyx Cool, each featuring the company’s signature plant-based cooling technology.

Our conversation with Tammy traces her career trajectory and includes her perspective on fundraising and collaborative marketing. We also touch on the value of curiosity, why women’s health and related products are so often overlooked, and what Tammy has learned from her biggest missteps as a founder.

Tammy is passionate about helping women live their best lives, which is why she founded this company and why she encourages other women to take back their power, think bigger, and persevere as entrepreneurs. Tune in today to learn more about the strength that other women entrepreneurs have to help lift you and your business up from rockstar CEO Tammy Lee!

Topics discussed in this episode:

• How Tammy found herself in the wearable therapies category
• Insight into starting a new manufacturing plant from scratch
• The innate curiosity that many entrepreneurs have in common
• Determining whether your product is a good fit for QVC
• Making it or breaking it on Amazon
• Planning for a successful Q4 shopping season
• How to use gift guides to boost holiday sales
• Benefits of working together to promote women’s health products
• Fundraising tips from a serial CEO
• Reflecting on why women’s health is so underfunded
• Increasing awareness via word of mouth
• A lesson in how to stop, reset, and try again

Learn more about Opal Cool and Onyx Cool, and connect with Tammy on LinkedIn.

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Transcript: 

0:00:03 S1: Welcome to the Persevere Podcast, powered by Checkable Medical and hosted by Patty Post, a female founder, entrepreneur, wife and mother of three doing all of the things. The strength to persevere in business is powered by passion, grit, and hard work. The Persevere Podcast is for entrepreneurs and business leaders who set out to innovate and change the world with their ideas. Whether it's fundraising your startup, product development, marketing, branding or scaling your existing business, this podcast is for you. We'll discuss everything it takes to persevere and build the business you've always dreamed of. Let's make it happen. This is the Persevere Podcast where we help founders create awesome business products and not run out of money. Hi, I'm Patty Post, founder and CEO of Checkable Health. I started this podcast because I experienced loneliness and solitude as a solo founder. I had no one to turn to and I couldn't find relevant content of founders for high-tech companies like myself. So like the true entrepreneur I am, I started the Persevere Podcast. I'm interviewing founders and business leaders and we're talking about their founders' journeys from anything from raising capital to building a team, to how are you setting your strategy for the next year so you can crush it. I always ask about their missteps in business too because that's how we learn the best. Even though we don't like it when we fail, those failures teach us so much. So we're always going to talk about that when you're listening. So if you're new to this show, I hope you enjoy it, subscribe, give us five stars. We also have a LinkedIn group that is just starting up and it's the Persevere Podcast, and what we are doing is just continuing the conversation from the show. We can organize meetups. For example, I'm going to be at the HLTH conference in Las Vegas and I would love to see you, meet you in person. And that's where we can also talk about if you have guests in mind. Throw me a message on LinkedIn or just throw it on the Persevere Podcast LinkedIn group. And I would love to do research on the person that you think would be best for the podcast. So today we are interviewing Tammy Lee. Tammy is founder and CEO of Opal Cool and Onyx Cool. They are a company that is manufacturing in the US and they have a product that keeps a consistent cool on their therapeutic products and it can be applied directly to your body. So very interesting. Tammy is from Minneapolis as well. She's a mentor, she's a friend, she is the best connector that I've ever met in my life. She puts women together and she is a cheerleader of women that are driving business forward. She has been a powerhouse in raising money in the private sector, but also in academia, which is very challenging if you're in that sector, you know, it's not easy. And actually sits on the board of regions for Concordia College in Moorhead, Minnesota. And I'm really, really proud to call her friend, but have her on this episode too, because she started the company a lot like we have a couple of guests now that got through COVID and hearing those stories of how they pulled themselves through really the darkest time in a direct-to-consumer business and has come out on the other side, stronger, leaner, better, really, we're better for it. But to live through that and have that story to tell, I think is really a badge of honor. So I'm grateful for Tammy for being on the show. I think you're going to get a lot out of her advice that she has for us and that you might be characterizing yourself in one specific area, but maybe think of yourself broader and don't limit your mindset. Tammy never thought that she would be running manufacturing and that's exactly what she's doing in her company. And I think that's a value of what she brings to the business is that American-made right now is really, really valuable and she leads it all. So with that, let's get into it with Tammy Lee. Hope you're inspired, hope you visit her on her social channels. And from this conversation is really cool because we actually came up with some business ideas of how we can collaborate because I really believe her products can benefit our customers. So we're going to do some collaboration and you'll see her products on checkablehealth.com and along on our social channels. So I would love to promote her, which is why I did this podcast so I can promote others that are starting and persevering in business, and that I can actually bring value, health value to our customers as well in other areas of just our products. Tammy, thank you so much for joining me today.

0:05:19 S2: Thank you for having me on, Patty. Let's talk about when you started this, Tammy, what you really inherited as the business and you being a visionary, how you brought the business from where it was to where it is today. Just kind of paint that picture for everyone of where you started.

0:05:38 S2: I was actually hired into a company that was making products using a plant-based, actually, they weren't using plant-based, they were using a petroleum-based product, but they really didn't have, I think, the quality of products or the array of products that we saw that there was a market opportunity for. And they also weren't putting the money and investment in. So we parted ways with that company and launched on our own, developed a whole new product line, really with the women's-health focus in mind, and then really improved upon the design for the Onyx products for sports medicine and orthopedic injuries. And with those, we really tried to move more into the category of wearable therapies. And so there've been a lot of people that have made products using this, but just not at the quality or really in the spaces where I think people can really benefit the most from them. So I launched the company on my own with another partner and a great team of people in Red Wing right before COVID. So we started manufacturing in February of 2020, and shut down in March, like the rest of the world did. And so here we are two and a half years later, still persevering, but growing into new channel opportunities. And that's what's really exciting. The technology is phenomenal, safer than ice, long lasting, people like it. So now we just have to get the word out to the rest of the world and see what good we can do.

0:07:01 S1: So did you inherit the manufacturing or did you have to re-replicate that manufacturing?

0:07:08 S2: Yeah, we started out our completely new plan, brand new manufacturing plan. So within six weeks, we started up a manufacturing plant in Red Wing, got in all of the equipment we needed, had a team of 10 employees in place and figured out kind of new designs, bought new tooling. And so yeah, we started a plant from scratch and that's an interesting process too. I mean, all of us that are entrepreneurs, my background is not in manufacturing. In fact, my parents, you know, when I was growing up said, you know, work really hard, get a college education so you don't end up working in a factory. Well, I worked really hard. I got a college education and an MBA, and I work in a factory now. But the difference is our factory, which is a great place to be. So as an entrepreneur, you learn a lot, you figure things out. And I think you and I both have a curiosity that I think comes out of journalism backgrounds and that natural curiosity to want to learn about things. And it's amazing the number of former journalists that are actually entrepreneurs. So that's another kind of thing we have in common.

0:08:11 S1: Isn't that interesting? You're absolutely right. I've put the two and two together as well, that is it that we're a little fearless too, like, we're fearless and risk takers, but curious that let's just keep going. And if we don't get the answer, we feel like, okay, it's down there. Let's just keep going. I'm going to get that answer.

0:08:32 S2: Yeah, I think it is that natural curiosity and the desire to learn more, you know, to never be bored or stop taking on new challenges, I think is why a lot of people that come out of journalism or communications backgrounds end up as entrepreneurs. And I think how we benefit from that background is we have a natural ability to tell a story and selling products is nothing more than storytelling. Raising capital, which you've done, Patty, and I've done as well is about telling a compelling story. So having that background in journalism, I think is a natural pathway for entrepreneurs.

0:09:08 S1: So I was really interested when you first took the leap for QVC, something that it's like you would think there would be a ton of entrepreneurs that have done it because they're like running specials all the time, but it's actually very few and it's highly competitive. Would you tell us about that process of getting onto QVC and why you chose to do it?

0:09:29 S2: Yeah, it's highly competitive and I will tell you the margins aren't great either. So it depends on what your product is and whether or not it's a fit for QVC. Now we went on with the shoulder product and because it can be used seven different ways, but what I really wanted to go on with were the Gal Pals or the Cool Wrap for menopause because QVC's audience, it's she. She is buying things and she is a woman in her fifties or sixties with a credit card, probably with menopausal hot flashes. But the challenge of getting on QVC is you're pitching to a buyer that's like 26 or 28 years old who has no idea what menopausal hot flashes are. I would say QVC can be a cautionary tale because you have to have 1,500 units ready to go and if they don't sell them, they're coming back to you. So it's a high risk if you've got a, and our product, our shoulder retails at $139 and I think on QVC it was around $89. That's a higher price point than the typical QVC customer. So you really have to think about whether your product is in alignment with them. Gal Pals I think are the perfect QVC kind of product. Eye masks, also perfect for QVC. Maybe a bundle with a Cool Wrap and Gal Pals. But I think it's, you really have to think about whether your product is a good fit for them. And for me, I don't know that, I wouldn't do Onyx again on QVC, but it was a great experience to learn how to get product on there and down the road I might reconsider it with some of our other product lines.

0:10:58 S1: Did you do the on-air yourself?

0:11:00 S2: Yeah, so it was during COVID. So I was paired with a host who was in the studio and I was in a kitchen that's larger than this one with a studio setup and we did the pitch together. So we were live together for I think 10 or 12 minutes of time on QVC. Very cool. Were you nervous? No, you know, again, an advantage of coming out of a journalism or TV background, the two of us were having a conversation about our products and the features and benefits. So I wasn't nervous, but they also have you go through it. You have to go through host training and get certified before you can go on the air too. Oh, that's interesting. What's that prep like? It's a couple hours of live Zoom with their kind of talent coaches and telling your story and making sure your pitch is down and learning all the words that you cannot say because you can't make any health claims. And it's really difficult to not make health or medical claims when that's the basis for everything in your product.

0:12:01 S1: You have data though. Why can't you make any claims?

0:12:04 S2: You can't. I mean, their lawyers are really stringent. So we talk about pain relief, pain management, how our products help cool at 58 degrees, which there's no risk of ice burn or frostbite. So we have to talk in a circle around all of the things that our product does, which tells a health story without making claims. So it's an interesting journey and if anybody ever wants to get on QVC, I'm happy to help them decide if that's right for them.

0:12:33 S1: That's kind of like Amazon when people, like I just saw this guy talking about “just buy some product on Alibaba and then have it shipped to the Amazon fulfillment, throw your listings up on Amazon and you can like have a half a million dollars of revenue in a year.” And I commented, I'm like, okay, you could have a half a million dollars of revenue, but then how much did you spend on your ads to get that? Because my guess is you probably spent a million on ads in order to get a half a million of revenue because it's very hard.

0:13:08 S2: Yeah. That's what people don't realize about those kinds of platforms. And we're on Amazon, but our products are so new and it's a technology that people don't understand. So we don't sell a lot on Amazon, but I'm also not buying up into the ad box either. With some products, I think that could make sense. But you kind of have to be on there, but it's not the main focus for our product. Same with Walmart. And again, if you're not buying, spending on ads and getting your way into the buy box, or you need to have a certain number of videos too, I mean, there are all of these algorithms that make or break your success on Amazon. So while Amazon may seem like an easy way to make money, as you and I both know, there's a lot more to it than just putting a listing up.

0:13:49 S1: Yeah. There's no easy way of making money. There's just not. It's like how often do you stumble across a hundred dollar bill on the ground? You probably never have, right? There's a reason for that. We're just getting into the busiest season for direct-to-consumer. And I'm curious how you are planning to make this a really successful season and what kind of planning are you doing with your team, and just share with us some of those things you're doing. Yeah. We will do some more appearances. We're on a TV campaign this week on another show. We're in a holiday gift guide with both Opal and Onyx, the 40 Boxes holiday gift guide. And some of the online promos that we've found through Good Morning America, The View or others or this 40 Boxes have been incredibly fruitful and successful for us. So I think it's finding some of those platforms where there's already eyeballs and not trying to buy enough keywords that you can buy your way in. We really focus this holiday season on who are other partners that already have market share that we should be doing promotions with. And we've tried some things too where we have used our email database to promote other products. You know, this is a product that we love and there's a company called MAI We Care, which has adaptive clothing for people that have had surgeries. So we did a joint email blast with them for Breast Cancer Awareness Month. So here's their product, you can save 15%. Here's our Cool Wrap and our Gal Pals, you can save 15%. We've both sent it out to our databases. So finding other partners like you and I were talking about earlier, how do we use the assets that we have to build each other's brands? And I think women are always thinking really creatively about that. And I'd love to hear what you're doing for the holiday season. What are you doing, Patty, to build your brand and get it out into the busiest shopping season? You know, we're doing some local things. Like we were just down in Miami at a, there was about 3,500 women that attended a Halloween event with their kids. And so we were there handing out our flyers because we have a clinical site in Miami, but then we had a code, we had a code on the other side for the supplements. And then we have a few things around the country that we're going to do the same, just more of like the local face to face. I feel like that has a much, like you were saying, the clicks, like buy the clicks. We can buy as many clicks as we want, but at the end of the day, if someone meets someone from the company, a brand ambassador or meets you or meets me, then they're much more likely to go to your Facebook page or follow you or sign up for your newsletter. Because I think that they want to know the brand on a personal level. And that's where I think digital marketing is totally lost. It's just very impersonal. So we're doing some of that. And then on the gift-buying season, we're honestly launching our five supplements and then telemedicine the first quarter and running the clinical trials. So from the holiday specials with Amazon and then doing podcasts like this, getting out there and saying, hey, if you have a product that you would like to share with your family as a gift, buy them a two pack of melatonin. What a great gift. Who needs something? It's better sleep. Everyone needs better sleep. So those are the things that we're doing. I'm trying not to spend a whole bunch of money on the digital campaigns right now. I wish that we would have gotten sooner on those gift-buying things because from my experience, it's more like a second-quarter timeframe that they're putting those gift ideas together. Have you found that?

0:17:32 S2: Well, second or third, a lot of these gift guides are coming together in August, September. But most of the decisions are made by early August.

0:17:41 S1: And I think from a company standpoint, when you're developing products, it's very different from launching products or very different than marketing products. And we have to focus so much on that clinical and that getting that product through and then launching that the marketing piece is sort of like, oh shoot, we got to do better in this marketing. But once we get through the clinical, I think it's going to fall together better. But those gift guides, I read them all the time, actually. And I think of with your product that I just interviewed a woman, her company is Sleepy Cub, and she has consulting for sleep therapy for your babies and or even like up to six years old. And it takes one week and then you can get your kid to sleep through the night. And she's a trained therapist. And I said to her, why aren't you marketing this for like baby showers? Like you could give this because she does it, you know, like a subscription base for seven days, two weeks. And this is the same thing as the Gal Pals. This would be something that for a baby shower gift, we don't need another onesie. You don't need another cute outfit. This is actually something that's super practical, as well as if someone is diagnosed, like very thoughtful, intentional gift, someone's diagnosed with cancer. Well, of course, a meal is very nice. But sometimes you wonder, like, what is it that I could give someone that they will actually use and is very intentional. And I think of your products as that.

0:19:15 S2: Well, that's why we're so excited about places like My Power Pack, where you can give somebody a meal or a gift card or a DoorDash, or you could give them a Cool Pad to sleep on at night or an eye mask. And I think being in places like that, where you know that you're providing a good or a service that can benefit them, I think is exactly where we want to be. And then I think of your products, Patty, and how they fit with ours and and why we aren't putting together, we could have a whole sleep package that includes her services, my Cool Pad, the eye mask, the melatonin, we could have the total like holiday gift bundle with our products. I mean, there are things that we still could do and do it through email marketing.

0:19:56 S1: Oh, that's such a great idea. We should do this because I also have a woman that's a, she is a lactation consultant. And I mean, there's so many good ideas around that. Let's okay, so audience, stay tuned, because you'll find something on the Checkable site for sure that we can put together that is the gift idea that's unique and intentional and thoughtful. Let's do that for sure, Tammy, I love that as well as we just gave away some hand knit, or just crocheted like a little bear and then with a little hat. And that was from one of our, actually Nate works for me, his wife started this business on Etsy. And like, well, why don't we give this away? Do such beautiful work, but it's hard. Again, it's hard to market your business when you're just a single shop hanging your, put a nail up there and hang it on the Etsy storefront. It gets very crowded.

0:20:54 S2: Yeah. And that's why there's strength in numbers and why I'm really excited about this new fundraising platform for schools and other, you know, women's-health-related charities. Because I think that there are so many products like yours and hers and others that we've talked to where we should create our own marketplace for women's health. Quick, I want to ask you about your fundraising because that is something that you have, I mean, how many companies have you been, we're going to put your bio on the Checkable, the Persevere website because you of being a CEO with multiple companies have done, I mean, I looked up to you before I founded this company, as a rockstar CEO. How much money have you raised and would you just give us some of that like power that you have inside of you, and gusto to go out and raise money? You mentioned storytelling, but I'd love to hear your perspective on how are you so good at it?

0:21:54 S2: You know, it's very kind of you to say, but really it is a story of perseverance. And when I was CEO for Recombinetics, we raised $34 million for that company for their Series A, but we probably did over 70 pitches to get to that amount. I mean, it takes a long time as you know, Patty, because you've raised money as well. I raised money for a couple of years at the U from corporate and foundation partners and there we were doing, I don't know, around $40 million a year. I think now that department raises over a hundred million from corporations and foundations. So part of it is just building your pipeline too and going anywhere and everywhere where people will tell your story. But it's just about storytelling and I think if you can tell a compelling story and you know your numbers, it's pretty formulaic about what has to go in a pitch deck. As you know, everybody's looking at the total addressable market. Everybody's looking at what's their differentiator. Everybody's looking at what's the return, how long before you're going to be cash flow positive, understanding the numbers, but really getting people excited about what you're doing and why it's different than anybody else's, I think why people are good at fundraising. And you're great at it too. You’ve raised a lot of money as well, Patty, and you've expanded your network and it comes with a fearlessness of being able to do the ask because if you don't ask, the answer is always going to be no. You have to have the courage to get up every day and get 10 more no's before you finally get to the big yes.

0:23:21 S1: Kiss a lot of frogs. Right. That is right. Why do you think that women's health is underfunded? Do you feel like women's health is underfunded, under-researched, and I think it's promising, but what do you think when I say that?

0:23:37 S2: I think that's well documented. I think most of the early studies that were funded by NIH were all more male-focused. Only in the last few years have we even lifted the taboo about talking about menopause. A few years ago, I remember it being the year of the period, and people were talking about new products for women with their period. In the last couple of years, there has been, I think, an avalanche of new products and services and conversation around menopause and women's health. I feel like we are busting through those taboos, but women also spend less on themselves. Women who are in their 50s, late 40s and 50s, where you're hitting menopause, oftentimes should have the most discretionary income, but they don't spend it on themselves. But for mother-baby and spending money in baby showers, mother-baby in retail outsells menopause seven to one. Oh, wow. So you think about how fun it is to buy Gal Pals for a baby shower or a cooling mask, but people aren't sure if they should buy a Cool Wrap for menopause for their menopausal mom or menopausal aunt. There's still a bit of a stigma around it. So we have to continue to have the conversation about why this is good for women's health and how it's going to change people's lives because we're not quite there yet. And women also don't get as much funding as men. Not only 2% of, I think, female CEO companies get funded. I mean, it's a very small and startling statistic. So we've got a long ways to go, but Patty, with what you're doing with Checkable Medical, you’ve busted through so many barriers. I hope to continue to climb over some more walls too, and we have to help other women get there too. And I am just as committed to doing that as to making sure that my own company thrives.

0:25:19 S1: Yeah, just get out there, right? We can't have the lack or the history impede us from going forward. And we can't rewrite history that way. We're going to rewrite it our own way. Successful, right?

0:25:30 S2: Yeah, right. We're creating a bright future, not worrying about the gloomy past. Yeah. And I think bringing awareness to menopause and talking more about it is really important. And I think it's like for, I mean, we have half of our audience of the Persevere Podcast is men. And listening to the topic of menopause, and if you are married to someone that is in menopause, I think that there's a lot of respect there. I mean, I know from other people that I'm friends with that there is respect there. But if you aren't yet to that spot, or if you look at your mom or your aunt, buy them this product. I mean, how incredibly thoughtful and useful because like you said, women aren't spending money on themselves. And we need to increase awareness of things like this and without putting dollars towards it. And word of mouth is the best way to do that.

0:26:25 S2: Yeah, it absolutely is. And we also try and get word of mouth out through product donations. We've reached out to a number of breast cancer centers and we donate our seconds to any breast cancer center that wants them so that we can get them in the hands of women who might not be able to afford the product. So I think there are things that we can do to lift the taboo on things just by getting it more out into the world. Last question, if you think back of a misstep, we all take missteps in entrepreneurship, but sometimes the missteps, most of the time, the missteps teach us more than those right steps. So is there anything that comes to mind that you're like, gosh, I wish I wouldn't have done it that way, but boy, did I learn a lot. So then someone listening can be like, oh, I'm doing that or I'm not going to do that. Yeah, that's an interesting question. I feel like, you know, the word of COVID was about pivot. And I feel like in the early days, because as I mentioned, we launched the company in February of 2020, right before COVID. I felt like everything we tried wasn't working. And I don't know if it was a misstep or just beating your head against the wall because you couldn't get into places. So I think sometimes you also just have to just stop doing things that aren't working. Because I spent a lot of money trying to like buying keywords in the early days of COVID when everybody was shopping online. But if people don't know and understand your product, you can spend a lot of money on Google AdWords and keywords that aren't going to convert into sales. So I think sometimes it's hard to stop doing things. And if I've learned one lesson through COVID that I keep learning again and again, sometimes you just have to stop something for something new to start. And we've been spending a lot of time trying to get into hospitals and clinics and medical centers. And I still think our products will do really well there. But it's such a long sales tail to get in there. But now I'm thinking, okay, this idea of helping schools or organizations raise money, I feel like matches with my mission and matches with a need. But I can't do that if I'm still trying to knock on hospital doors every day and not get through them. So I would say more in the category of stop so that you can start something else.

0:28:43 S1: That's really good advice, actionable advice that you can take today if you're feeling restless like, oh my gosh, I have all these things going but nothing is working. Take time to be grounded, center yourself and look at what your priorities are too.

0:29:00 S2: And I think just as a way of how you reset, this idea for this really focusing on school and women's-health fundraisers came because I had time to pause this week and it was a women's retreat. You and I have done a women's retreat together. And the flashes of brilliance always come out of those weekends. And when I was going, I thought, I don't have time to do this. I have so much that I need to do. And I almost didn't want to go, but I'm always so glad when I do it. And I feel like that's also part of it, that a big misstep we all do as women is just keep trying to plow through. And sometimes you just have to stop and reset and find a circle of women friends who can help you get back on track again.

0:29:46 S1: Did you go to Waverly?

0:29:47 S2: No, actually I sold that retreat center. So I no longer own Waverly, but I went to Kohler, Wisconsin with a group of women who are in WPO with me, the Women Presidents Organization. And we went to the American Club in Kohler, and it's a beautiful spa, golf courses, places to hike and a lot of time to reflect. And you don't have to go to some fancy resort to achieve what you need to. You can do it at a friend's house with four or six other people. But I think the best, if I could prescribe anything to women entrepreneurs, especially women in healthcare, stop. Your best prescription is going to be getting around your circle of women and asking them to kind of help you think through what's next.

0:30:28 S1: Such good advice. I'm proud of you. That's a really big aha to come out of a retreat like that.

0:30:36 S2: Well, thank you. It's the power of other women helping lift you and your business up. So cool. Well, how can everyone find you and get on some of these newsletters that you're sending out and follow you on social?

0:30:47 S2: Yeah. So our websites, our women's health website is opalcool.com and our sports medicine and orthopedic injury website is onyxcool.com. Opal and Onyx are the two stones. Onyx is black. All of those products are black and Opal is the healing stone of health and resilience, which fits very well with this podcast. So those are our two websites. And coming soon, we'll have a website focused on how we can help schools and healthcare-related organizations raise funds for their causes for research and for the people that need their services.

0:31:20 S1: That's amazing. So we'll have to have you on when you launch that so you can share with everyone about that new exciting venture.

0:31:28 S2: Well maybe we'll be launching that together, Patty. So we'll stay in touch about that and

0:31:31 S1: more to come. I love it. Tammy Lee, it was so wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much for giving your time to our audience and all the best with this holiday season of 2022. And same to you, Patty. Thanks for having me on the show. You too inspire me and so many other women. So it's always a pleasure to spend the time with you. Thank you. This is the Persevere Podcast where we help founders create awesome business products and not run out of money. Hi, I'm Pattiy Post, founder and CEO of Checkable Health. I started this podcast because I experienced loneliness and solitude as a solo founder. I had no one to turn to and I couldn't find relevant content of founders for high-tech companies like myself. So like the true entrepreneur I am, I started the Persevere Podcast. I'm interviewing founders and business leaders, and we're talking about their founders' journeys from anything from raising capital to building a team to how are you setting your strategy for the next year so you can crush it. I always ask about their missteps in business too because that's how we learn the best. Even though we don't like it when we fail, those failures teach us so much. So we're always going to talk about that when you're listening. So if you're new to this show, I hope you enjoy it. Subscribe, give us five stars. We also have a LinkedIn group that is just starting up and it's the Persevere Podcast. What we are doing is just continuing the conversation from the show. We can organize meetups. For example, I'm going to be at the HLTH conference in Las Vegas and I would love to see you, meet you in person. That's where we can also talk about if you have guests in mind. Throw me a message on LinkedIn or just throw it on the Persevere Podcast LinkedIn group and I would love to do research on the person that you think would be best for the podcast. Thank you for listening to the Persevere Podcast powered by Checkable Medical. Head over to perseverepodcast.com for notes, links, and additional resources from today's show. To continue hearing insights and gaining knowledge from those persevering, succeeding, and making their dream a reality, be sure to subscribe through your favorite podcast app. Now go make it happen.